look, the national security agency, i depended upon it for my entire career. it's got brilliant information when it comes to counterterrorism. but when you're listening into european leaders, it's not worth it. and especially when you let someone like edward snowed den put documents out. the europeans are going to back away. wee need them for counterterrorism. >> you said on cnn "newsroom" yesterday, you said, we'll see people -- and you said quote, backing off from washington. give me a sense of what you think that will look like and elaborate on what you mean. >> look, let's take britt i can't be. gchq, that's their national security agency. it's quite remarkable organization. they're very good. if they should come up with a very secret interacceptive, they're going to have second thoughts about calling washington and sharing it. they just will. they're worried about all the information we're leaking from wikileaks and on. it's truly a culture of -- that can't be sustained. >> so there's one thing to be very upset, feel violated, et cetera. but it's another